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 Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video

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Fatdaddy

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PostSubject: OPTO   Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:55 pm

Hey Guys, OPTO means there is no BEC... With an OPTO ESC you must use a BEC to power the REC. I also am having trouble seeing, and keeping the orentation of the heli's.. I have much more trouble with the 450's.. I seem to be OK with the 500 and up..
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Crash & Burn

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PostSubject: motor   Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:12 pm

How many poles are there on the e-smart motor,I need to know for the ESC I Think it's 8 Crazysmile
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:17 pm

ooops....I had it backwards sorry......
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Fatdaddy

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PostSubject: ???   Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:18 pm

Can't help you there.. Most ESC's will set auto I think..
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:25 pm

There is 8 magnets inside and 12 coils. Dont know what that means though....
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Opto   Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:35 pm

OH, so that's what that means.

OPTO means w/BEC. As far as disabling the function, I believe its just a matter of clipping back the hot wire coming from the ESC, and then you just connect your BEC to the batts and to the batt slot on the receiver.

I've watched videos on this, and haven't heard of any programming changes or anything.

But, as always, I remain "all ears," if someone knows better than I, which is quite likely at this stage of the game.

But it hovered so beautifully! I'm still chomping at the bit to get some flight time in.

Oh, and Nuttzy, could you say again why we don't want to use the BEC that comes wired with the ESC when we use more than a two or three cell pack?

And what specs should my BEC have, and should I run it at 5v or 6v?

Thanks, Gentleman!

Mick flyaway
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Crash & Burn

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PostSubject: poles   Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:49 pm

Kv: 1200 RPM/V
No Load Current: 5.0A
Resistance: -
Max Voltage: 24V
Max Current: 50A
Max Watts: 1000W
Weight: 305 g / 10.76 oz
Size: 43 mm x 73.5 mm
Shaft Diameter: 5mm
Poles: 8
I found this at BP :clap:


I don't know if it is right. flyaway
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Donnie D

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:16 pm

WhiteKnite6.
,

OPTO means without a BEC.

Donnie D smiley-happy088
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Epiphany!!!   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:23 pm

Fatdaddy says OPTO is NO BEC, right!!! (Donnie, you, too, I see, our posts overlapped)

Well, he may have solved my problem and saved me a bundle on a new ESC and BEC, like I had loaded up in my virtual shopping cart even as I write this.

It dawned on me that, if my OPTO ESC has NO uBEC functionality, then why did I detach and trim the red wire?

I followed Finless Bob's directions to the letter (for an ESC WITH uBEC) and it worked for a little while, but I'm now guessing that eventually it lost its return (ground) and started firing on only two cycles. Hence, the stuttering motor!

I'm so sure this was my problem that I had to shout it back out there.

AMAZING, how many ways there are to screw up. I don't even feel too bad about this one, since I can see why I was fooled. But thank the good Lord it didn't twist my SMarty into a rotating pile of scrap metal. Whew!

Now, just a little solder and shrink, and I'm back in business, I'll warrant you.

If not, I'll come back here and whine again, but I'll bet we're good.

Thanks to Suriano AND FD for this one, both of you guys made me think.

Mick flyaway


Last edited by WhiteKnite6 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:27 pm

Crash & Burn wrote:
Kv: 1200 RPM/V
No Load Current: 5.0A
Resistance: -
Max Voltage: 24V
Max Current: 50A
Max Watts: 1000W
Weight: 305 g / 10.76 oz
Size: 43 mm x 73.5 mm
Shaft Diameter: 5mm
Poles: 8
I found this at BP :clap:


I don't know if it is right. flyaway


I think 8 poles is correct. I checked out the specs too.

I was wrong before OPTO means without bec like Fatd and Donnied said.

My BEC is switchable from 5v to 6v and I have used both. I found that my skill
level is most likely not good enough to tell the difference. So I keep it on 5v.

Anyone else on the BEC voltage?
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Fatdaddy

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PostSubject: Voltage!!   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:35 pm

Well I can't tell the diff. either.. I don't use the BEC for it I'm using a rec. pack on both my "E" and "G" the E has a 4.8 volt and the G has a 6.0 and both running the exact same servos and both with the metal head and I can't tell the diff. at my level either!!
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Nuttcaze
Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:52 pm

running at 6v makes your servos faster and more touchy, but also alot of gyros require you to step down the voltage to 5v for them

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I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just really busy and forgetful.
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:04 am

Just wanted to say sorry for changing the title of the thread over and over.
I am going to leave it alone now.....

I really want to go fly.........Before its to cold for my fingers to control the heli.

I am excited to get the esmart up and fly'n. Just waiting for parts. I am just happy
I could get the extra $50 I spent.....
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:05 am

WhiteKnite6 wrote:
Fatdaddy says OPTO is NO BEC, right!!! (Donnie, you, too, I see, our posts overlapped)

Well, he may have solved my problem and saved me a bundle on a new ESC and BEC, like I had loaded up in my virtual shopping cart even as I write this.

It dawned on my that, if my OPTO ESC has NO uBEC functionality, then why did I detach and trim the red wire?

I followed Finless Bob's directions to the letter (for an ESC WITH uBEC) and it worked for a little while, but I'm now guessing that eventually it lost its return (ground) and started firing on only two cycles. Hence, the stuttering motor!

I'm so sure this was my problem that I had to shout it back out there.

AMAZING, how many ways there are to screw up. I don't even feel too bad about this one, since I can see why I was fooled. But thank the good Lord it didn't twist my SMarty into a rotating pile of scrap metal. Whew!

Now, just a little solder and shrink, and I'm back in business, I'll warrant you.

If not, I'll come back here and whine again, but I'll bet we're good.

Thanks to Suriano AND FD for this one, both of you guys made me think.

Mick flyaway

Man I hope that helps also. But what does that red wire do if it isnt the BEC?
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Great Question ...   Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:00 am

I think that had a lot to do with my mistake, Surry ...

I figured that if an ESC had no uBEC function, it wouldn't have a red wire at all. Makes sense, right?

Well, now that the results are in (it stutters on the motor, works on the servos), I believe that the ESC uses what MIGHT be called a 3-phase system, and the red wire, when disconnected, may seek (and find) a return using one of the other leads, but ultimately is unstable, and can't sustain constant input or demand.

That's my guess, such as it is, having worked with electricity throughout my career and been baffled by its mysteries. Sometimes when you unplug a phase, it works, using one of the other two phases as a return, but it isn't consistant.

To cite an example, if you have a three phase ballast for a light, you MAY be able to run it single phase just by dropping the black lead. But you may not! And on some occasions, though you fit into the latter category, it may work temporarily, before complaining in any variety of ways. Electricity is a mystery, like gravity and magnetism.

I don't try to play Einstein. I just do what I know works.

I think this will. But if I'm wrong, I'll be back here, and the first to admit it.

Thanks again for confirming that you're a bright individual that thinks things through.

You've been a great resource for me, getting started.

Mick flyaway
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:34 pm

Mick, I hear you...I am somewhat of an electrical lover. One of my specialties for
the last 14 years was elec work in the motorcycle field. Most tech's hated it but I
loved it. Also dabble in home wiring too.

Do you have any pictures to share? I would like to see your bird and how you set it
up. How did you mount your battery's?
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: pics ...   Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:48 pm

I should be able to borrow a camera from work this afternoon. If not, I suppose I could use my phone camera, just to give an idea what I've done.

But the battery mount was simple: adhesive velcro tape to tape the two batts together, two strips of velcro tape on the UNDER side of the battery tray, matched to two strips of velcro buck up to the rear of the cells, so I can get proper CG (which is PURRR-fect, btw), one velcro strap around the batt to help the velcro tape hold the pack up against the batt tray, and one large, reusable zip tie for the wires which doubles its duty by even more firmly securing the batteries.

Sounds like a lot, as I write this, but it's easy, and fail safe.

Ciao for Now;

Mick :prop:


Last edited by WhiteKnite6 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:01 pm

I just got the tracking info for my BP order...I was worried that I wouldnt get the motor
but I did, for $35....I think that with the new motor My Esmart will fly like everybody
else's heli's. I have a feeling that along with all the other bad parts in my kit that the motor
was part of the problem too. It makes sense after looking inside the bearing and finding
the metal cage around the balls was all messed up. The vibrations were on and off, one battery
would fly pretty good(with hurricane head) and the next battery without changing anything I
would have a vibration again. Then if I was hard on it with punch outs and such it would go
away or come back.

I now have a good central holder and the tail is fixed along with other inprovements, the
new motor should be my golden ticket.....
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:27 pm

WhiteKnite6 wrote:
I should be able to borrow a camera from work this afternoon. If not, I suppose I could use my phone camera, just to give an idea what I've done.

But the battery mount was simple: adhesive velcro tape to tape the two batts together, two strips of velcro tape on the UNDER side of the battery tray, matched to two strips of velcro buck up to the rear of the cells, so I can get proper CG (which is PURRR-fect, btw), one velcro strap around the batt to help the velcro tape hold the pack up against the batt tray, and one large, reusable zip tie for the wires which doubles its duty by even more firmly securing the batteries.

Sounds like a lot, as I write this, but it's easy, and fail safe.

Ciao for Now;

Mick :prop:

So you didnt make a battery holder? Just using the bottom or the top area? With 2
zippys on the bottom for me to get CG right my batterys stuck way out the front.

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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: battery arrangement.   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:34 pm

I think I remember this conversation from earlier in this thread.

Yes, yours looks just like mine. It has enough room for the canopy to fit on nicely, as long as the wires are snugged in and held down on top, not the sides.

But it doesn't strike me as unusual to look at your pic, to slide the batt out that far. I think a lot of helis are like that.

Lookin' good, I say ...

Mick noob


Last edited by WhiteKnite6 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:41 pm

Yes it would seem as normal to see the battery's stick out that far. Only I had
to place 2 L shaped brackets on the sides to hold the battery from moving up
and down. I loop alot and fly upside down and didnt want it to come loose. Thats
why I ask if you had to make something to hold it out that far....

You didnt make anything to hold it?
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:59 pm

Nope;

I haven't flown it yet, but it is rock solid -- double strapped plus velcro.

Should be good for anything. Only difference between yours and mine, is that mine is strapped to the under side of the top mounting plate. I can really snug it up that way.

:bigthumb:

Surry, check this out:

Lipo Pack Wiring

I made a note about this in the batteries and chargers section of this forum, but here's a great little tool I found over at Helifreak. It's an HTML page with dynamic interactive diagrams and calculators showing how to wire and charge just about any battery configuration you can imagine.

Including, btw, how to build a harness to balance charge our TWO 3S packs in series at the same time.

Now that's a time saver!

Later flyaway


Last edited by WhiteKnite6 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: ESC troubles over ...   Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:33 pm

I'm sure the cause of my problem must've been disconnecting the red wire on an OPTO ESC, but I tried to solder a fresh control cable on today, and the problem was still there.

Must've blown up the ESC.

Fortunately, the guy who'd helped me out at the park (Jeff), had given/loaned me an 80A ESC from his PROTOS 500, which he wasn't using.

I had to change the bullets to larger ones, but PRESTO CHANGE-O, it spun up great, without the main blades on. Smooth as glass!

One thing I learned today is that different ESC's require a different initialization to detect throttle throw. Apparently, this one does it automatically the first time you hook it up, so long as your throttle is in low position.

Finless Bob has a great vid series on setting up the Castle Creations 85A HV, in which he shows how to start with your throttle ranges set to 50% on BOTH low and high, then set your throttle stick to high as you initialize. It won't initialize with these settings, so you increase the throttle range on high to over 90% until you hear it initialize, then give it two or three more clicks and your done.

Repeat for the low setting, making sure to turn everything off and reinitialize before doing the low range.

Is yours that way, Surry?

And now it's my turn to ask about the stock ES600 motor: my ESC wants to know what Switch Frequency it uses. The choices are 8kHz and 16kHz. Anyone know this?

Anyway, this new Lipotech ESC has a governor on it. Can you use the governor with a 6-channel radio (DX6i)? I heard you needed a 7th channel for that.

Sheesh! Does this ever end?

I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel ....

... here's to hoping it isn't a train coming!

Mick fly high

PS Surry, how's that new motor working out?
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:31 pm

Hey Mick, the Castle creations 85HV does have a govener on it and I havent
used it. You dont need another channel to use it. My throttle options are..
Auto(not for heli)Fixed(used with TX throttle curves)Govener low and
Govener High. I am using fixed mode and use my programed throttle
curves in the TX. Also the options for switch rate is 13khz(for most
brushless motors)26khz(for low inductance motors)52khz(for very low
inductance motors) I am using 13khz.

I havnt received the motor yet, thursday I think it will be here.

You know my first ESC only lasted about 4 flights then sent my heli,
the esmart, straight down to the ground. Thats why I blew the $ for
the CC 85HV because I heard it will last a long time. BTW I think
there is 2 versions of the CC 85HV.
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: CC HV85   Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:44 am

Great info ...\

But my choices for Switch frequency are ONLY 8 or 16, switchable with a jumper on the program card.

13 is closer to 16 than 8. Should I go with that?

Oy vay!

Lol! Can't just all make sense, for some reason. That would be no challenge!

orange68

Later, Gentlemen;

Mick
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suriano

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:26 am

Found this....
Frequency Mode 1 – (8 kHz) optimum for Hacker Brushless Motors.
Frequency Mode 2 – (16 kHz) for Aveox, Astro, Plettenberg, Phaser, Mega motors.
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Frequency ...   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:59 am

Wonder what that means for the E-Smart?

Anybody have any ideas on this?

Also, Toy RC just canceled my order on the EK5-0357 link set for the SMarty's flybar.

Guess they didn't know it was discontinued. For a minute there I thought I'd scored.

orange45 I have an idea!

What about All of us together purchasing 200 from Micro Heli?

Didn't they agree to make a feathering shaft or something in that bulk number, if we wanted them?

I want 10 sets of these ball links sad122 .

What about the rest of you guys?
Here's an update. I sent this to microheli@microheli.com:

Thank You for making the Delrin Main gear for the E-Smart. I'll be picking up another one soon.

But we need some other parts for the E-Smart as well. Many of us are struggling to find a special ball link set (EK5-0357, from ESky), which seems to be the MOST needed part, and is discontinued.

How many would we need to buy to have you make them for us? We have lots of E-Smart pilots at our forum.

Let's work this out together.

Thanks, in advance, for listening to your customers.

Mick


Take Care For Now;

Mick noob
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Nuttcaze
Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:33 pm

the upgraded main shafts and feathering shafts should still be on their way to being produced, they are being made in china this time which is causing delays, usually they would make the parts at their manufacturing plant in Vietnam

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I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just really busy and forgetful.
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WhiteKnite6

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PostSubject: Re: Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video   Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Should be nice!

:prop:
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