e-smart owners please help me.....

In persuit of try'n to get my ES600 fly'n right I need some more help or varification really.
I have been dealing with nothing but bad vibrations since I bought this Heli. Bad enough that fly'n it sucks. I have spent many hours and now $ to try and get this thing right.

I have noticed without the blades on that when I spin up the motor and look at the front belt drive gear I can watch my belt travel up and down the gear constantly. This would mean that my belt is always moving up and down in the boom.

Can owners of ES600 please verify that this is normal or not?

Thanks for all responses.....

I'll charge my battery up and check later when I get home but I'm fairly sure mine doesn't go up and down like you mentioned.

Are you still using the stock blades? Also make sure all the set screws for the landing skids are tight. I forgot to tighten 2 set screws holding the skids pipes one day and had a heck of a time tracking that vibration down.

I just took the main blades off and ran it up a bit.
The belt stays put and dose not travel up or down. Granted I didn't run it up high but it is consitantly in the same spot.

Maybe your belt is not tight enough

Nuttcaze, I am not running the stock blades but I found a mismachined central holder and I am waiting for the part to show up. As for the belt if I tighten it anymore it causes a really bad vibration. I had to cut the boom and loosen it a bit and the vibration is less now, but in the persuit of finding all the bad parts that the esmart kit came with I noticed the belt issue.

I have since new, replaced the main shaft, feathering shaft, and flybar. Now I am waiting for a central holder, front belt drive gear and feathering shaft bushings.

I dont have to run the motor very high at all to watch the belt run up and down the gear. Ofcoarse the higher I run the motor the faster the belt goes up and down. So you can imagine what the belt might be causing while fly'n.

I must have got a bad kit (all metal) because I havent been able to enjoy it at all. But it looks good sitting on the counter......

All most ready to sell it because I work on it more than I can fly it. Hopefully I find the bad parts soon before I loose it...

So far sounds like the belt issue is not normal and I wouldnt think it would be......Now how the heck do I fix it.....?

Thanks for checking guys.....

I don't have the e smart , but I have the same problem on one of my heli, I just changed the tail gear drive and it worked fine.

I don't have the metal version but one of the nice things is that the whole tail boom will come out as 1 assembly by taking out the 4 screws on either side of the frame that holds the assembly together.
Only a few things come to mind that would make a belt not track. One of the gears is not at 90 (twisted on an angle in relation to the gear on the opposite end). You may have 3 twists in the belt instead of 1/2 twist. You could have something inside the tube that you can't see hitting the belt. The last thing would be that 1 of the gears is cone shaped (larger on top or bottom). One other thing you might check is that all of the teeth on the belt are intact and not missing a partial tooth, and the same with the gears.
I would pull the whole assembly out of the frame so that you can check things easily. At least with it out you can spin things by hand freely.

Blackrain I hope you are right.... I have one coming and should be here this week with priority shipping.

GW, I have pulled it out to verify the belt only has the half twist. Just in case you mis understood the belt will travel up,down,up,down,up,down,up,down and so on..... on the gear itself. If nobody else has or thinks this is normal condition, it seems to me it would have to be the gear..

My mind is halving trouble with this one because it would seem as though it should ride high or low or in the middle. Or start out low and ride high with power or start high and ride low with power, but bouncing up and down almost doesnt seem possible.....

Thank you guys for taking the time to help me with ideas on this problem....

I understand exactly what your saying. One of the things we make are dial drives and the dial is driven with a stepper motor with a gear on it which turns the dial plate which also has a gear on it and it is turned via a belt. The belt will always stay centered on the gears unless one of the gears is out. We also have side confinements on the tops of the gears so the belt can't come off. Every once in a while we get some yahoo that thinks that they can press a gear onto a shaft without insuring the gear is 90 to the shaft. When they do this the gear actually turns oblong and it dosn't take much. What happens is the belt will ride up the gear and hit the top confinement and then come back down and start the same thing all over again as the motor is turning. Depending on how far the gear is off will depend on how far the belt will ride up before it comes back down.
This is basically the same thing that you are seeing.

YES......GW thats what I am talking about.... That sounds as though it could only mean in this case that the plastic belt drive gear is mis-shaped.

change your tail gear drive, and you'll have a sweet flying heli

Well I just put more parts into this thing without good results.

The new gear for the belt didnt help at all the belt still goes up,down,up,down,up,down

I am not having any luck with this Heli. I am even buying and replacing new parts for nothing. I even got a brand new feathering shaft that was bent right out of the package. The new central holder didnt help much I still have a wobble and thats with a new main shaft too

I have a Walkara heli that flies better with hs-55 servos on it.

I have a EXI450 that flies perfect.

I dont know what to do anymore. I dont understand how come I am the only one that has these problems and when I fix/replace parts as recomended it doesnt help.

Anyway for those that are wondering....A new belt gear didnt solve anything...

All I have now is one expensive heaping pile of vibrating and shaking piece of .

Man I'm sorry you are having problems. I know it is frustrating, but I'm sure you will eventually solve it. I read the part about the behavior of your belt on the rear pully, so I looked at mine. Standing at the rear of the heli, I spooled it up to the point of just getting light on the skids, and then gave various inputs to the rudder and cyclic. My belt runs to the left side of the pully, right at the edge, but no matter what input I gave, it didn't move back and fourth, just stayed in the same place.

One question, are you using a training gear? I ask that, because most of the time a training gear will make any vibration you have worse, as it will greatly magnify the vibration.

Donnie D

I just reread your first post and realized you were talking about your front pully. I'll check that on mine the next time I fly and get back to you.

Also, just a thought, have you actually removed the belt from the boom completely and inspected it for defect or damage, like maybe a kink or a missing or malformed tooth. Just a thought.

Hey Donnie, I dont use training gear but I know what you are talking about.

I have not removed the belt completely as logic is telling me that a bad belt wont create a pogo effect only on the front pully. I didnt however replace the gear that the belt pully slides into. I will try that 2marrow and check the belt anyway.

I have ran out of $ to buy new parts to replace old parts so we will see how far I get.
Also I have had this heli for 2 months and have only flew it 4 times the rest I have been just working on it....

This is gonna sound really stupid, but sometimes it's the simplest things that stump us, because we look right over them. So count to 10 before you yell at me.

You don't by chance have your tail rotor blades on backward do you? Or maybe just one of them. Or even your link arms reversed. All of this may have come that way from the factory.

You seem to think your problem is in the tail area, and there aren't but so many things that could be wrong.

Also you could probably inspect the belt at least some by just turning the rotor head slowly by hand and watching the belt ride over the rear pully.

Just trying to throw things out that maybe you had not looked at.

Donnie D

No problem Donnie I know what you are talking about. I do have a bit of experience with the helis though and thats what is driving me nuts on this one..

I said what the heck and tore into it. I cant find anything wrong with the belt, but found several problems with the boom. The 2 screws that hold on the vertical fin went throught the boom because they are to long. Then I overtightened the 2 tiny set screws that hold the boom to the brace and they left big indents on the boom.

So it looks like I have to replace the boom now for further diagnostics.

Also I have been fighting head wobbles, skid shakes,boom brace earthquakes and tail shakes. This bird has it all. Thats why its really hard to fly it.

The gyro hates me besides fly'n with all the vibes will eventually tear up my heli and I dont want that.....

why dont you post a video on your heli that way nuttcaze , Donnie, or any other esmart owners can actually watch your heli" problem. This makes it a lot easier.

Good idea.

Donnie D

Suriano,
I just flew my E-Smart and I looked at my front belt pully and I do have a small amount of belt movement on the pully, not a lot, and it doesn't seem to matter what stick inputs I make. The movement stays the same, and it doesn't seem to affect the heli or cause any vibrations.
Just wanted to let you know.
I know this must be frustrating, but try not to get discouraged. Once you get this sorted out, and I know you will, you will have a really great heli. Just be careful with it and if you see it is behaving wrong when you lift off, set her down and try something else before you fly again so hopefuly the problem won't cause a crash.

At least you have other heli's to fly while you sort it out.

Donnie D

suriano,
It sounds like you are trying to fight a bunch of things that are happening all at the same time. It may be that when you eliminate the head shake problem, everything else will go away as well.
It sounds like you are mechanically inclined so this really helps out alot as compared to some that have little mechanical ability.
Let's take one step at a time. Remove your tail boom assy so that it's not even in the equation. Let's just find the problem with the head by trial and elimination.
Take off the head assy so that all you have is the motor turning the gears and main shaft. Spin it up and look from the top down. Is the shaft spinning true with no run out or vibration? If it is then you can eliminate the bearings and main shaft. If not, then your problem or part of your problem is in that area.
Next, put on the head assy but without the flybar and do the same thing. Spin it up again and check for vibration. If there is none you can rule out your swash and mechanical linkages and servos. Next, put in your flybar but without the paddles on and do the same thing. Then put your paddles on and do the same thing again. If you made it this far and there is no vibration then the only thing that will be left will be the very top of the head,,,ea. grips and associated parts and blades.
The main thing is to keep going one step at a time until you can find the cause of the vibration.
I'm certain that you have done most of this stuff before but with everything else going on, it can be overwhelming and it's like a dog chasing their tail around in a circle (getting no place fast).
I'm certain you will find the problem.
George

Thanks guys for the encouragement.

GW, I have done exactly what you discribe and found the wobble to be introduced when I install the central holder. I replaced it and the new one does it as well only not as bad.

Also when I install the feathering shaft it always seems to tighten to one side or the other. I will center the feathering shaft using mic ruller and install one blade grip and measure the other end it always comes up short. It always seems as though one blade is longer than the other. I have tried nuttcaze's idea of putting other washers on but did not help.

I have even used a micrometer to measure every shim and washer to get the thinest and most accurate setup possible but its not working.

Another thing is that the parts I am getting seem to be not so good. If I find a bad part like the central holder and replace with new, why is the new one wobbling too? How many of the same parts do I have to buy before I get a good one?

Well I ordered the tailboom for the swift like nuttcaze sugested so we will wait for that. I can see where the belt rubs the inside of the boom just a bit and right where the indents were from the set screws.

As for the central holder and the feathering shaft I dont know what to do????

Might have to go fishing and think about it. Let me know if you guys have any sugestions on that. Thanks agian you guys help me rattle this stuff around in the old brain can.....

you made sure the skids were tight right?

Hey Nuttcaze, Yes I have looked into that but most of the problems occur before even leaving the ground. I do think the landing gear is to flexible for me and prone to eccelerate vibration. I am looking into replacing with trex 600 landing gear.

The feathering shaft is one of my biggest concerns...

How do I get it centered after tightening the grips on??

I know this is one of my biggest problems because after messing with it 10 or so times I will get it right somehow and the vibration is very tolerable.

I think the new central holder is workable if I could just figure out how to get the feathering shaft and blade grips centered right.

Its so bad that when it spool's down if you dont hold the heli down it will bash the vertical fin into the ground over and over.

I know this can be fixed somehow because I have had it really close in the past.

Still seems like this is an uncommon problem for everyone else.

Sounds like you may be on top of your problem with the feathering shaft, if you can figure a way to fix it. I had a similar problem on spool up and spool down with my Belt CP, although not as bad as you describe, and it was a bent feathering shaft.

Donnie D

this was caused from the screws on the vertical fin being too long.



This is the set screw damage from over tightening them.

They were rubbing on the belt...



The measurements on the blade grips are correct now and seems to be running smooth now. I will have to wait now to install a fresh boom and see if we will be fly'n or cry'n.

Thanks to Nuttcaze for helping me post pictures....

Good luck man. I hope you've got it figured out. It really is a sweet flying heli, and I want you to experience it the way it is supposed to be.

Donnie D

Quick update....

I installed new tail boom and both the front belt pully and the pully gear that runs on the main.

I still have the problem of the belt running up and down the front pully like a pogo stick.

I will take it out today and see if it at least flies any better....

Well I wanted to show you guys the belt issue. I have replaced both
the gear and the pully along with a new boom.

To me it seems this could cause a problem, at higher speeds the
belt should be moving up and down quite rapidly.

Let me know what you guys think....

might be the tail gear shaft.

Mine does that as well and it runs to one side of the tail pully, but it does not seem to cause me any problems.

Donnie D

I have started a complete teardown and rebuild. I wanted to go through
the entire heli screw by screw. I hope when I am done I will end up with
a flyable heli like everyone elses.

My new post of the rebuild is in the pictures section of the forum. I hope
you guys will like it. I have spent over $300 in new parts and will be
posting the re-assy. on the ES600 using photos and videos.