Esmart build (Working It Out) Pictures and video

I saw the link lengths on one of nuttsey's videos that came from rcg. They don't seem to be working as I'd like them to for me. I have the cf pro all metal head.
Does anyone have any input? It's making me nuts!!
Frank

This is the same as mine!! Use the link leights in the manual to start not what Nuttsey has!!

fazool wrote:

I saw the link lengths on one of nuttsey's videos that came from rcg. They don't seem to be working as I'd like them to for me. I have the cf pro all metal head.
Does anyone have any input? It's making me nuts!!
Frank

heres the pic you were talking about, these measurements are much closer to what they should be compared to what the manual says, this pic was originally provided by another E-Smart owner on RCG, it is what I always start with and it makes set-up alot quicker, IMO

I saw this pix also and started with it and found it to be way off as compared to the book... Not that the manual is right but its closer for a CF Pro anyway than this pix!!! I tryed to use these the first build I did!!! Maybe the CFPro is somehow diff..??

The picture linkage lengths didnt work for me either. If you look at the linkage
that comes of the blade grips, the person that took this pic had allready
modified it to get a better setup to the flybar. Its not stock head setup.

I did that modification to mine and it changed the 2 linkage lengths that go to the
blade grip.

The A and the F linkage will be different than this photo.
I didnt measur mine before I tore it apart, sorry I cant give you better info on that.

suriano wrote:

The picture linkage lengths didnt work for me either. If you look at the linkage
that comes of the blade grips, the person that took this pic had allready
modified it to get a better setup to the flybar. Its not stock head setup.

the brass spacers you see in the pic are from the Plastic edition E-Smart, for some reason that is the only edition to use that spacer but it provides a better angle for the link, I feel all E-Smarts should have been like this not only the Plastic Edition. So thats not really a mod, just using the setup the Plastic Edition has, I do the same.

But not sure how my E-Smart's have been different from yours The other 3 worked fine with those lengths, I'll let you know the final links on my new Metal Edition when its finished

Just got back home!! I will measure my links in a few min. and post them.. What I do about the brass spacer thing is to use balls from the washout arms!! They are nice and long and work perfect!! I also don't know what could be diff. between the editions !! Maybe on the Carbon the placement of the triangle arms??

There you go talking about balls again.

Donnie D

Ok here is what I'm doin... In nuttsey's pix I will write down the measurement and then I will put the measurement from mine... OK Got ti??

Here you go!!

Nuttsey My CFPro
26.5 26.0

41.0 43.0

85.5 88.5

77.5 80.0

57.0 61.0 This one is approx. as I did not remove it to measure!!

I checked mine earlier and are still closer to the pic I have then to the manual. But everyone should already know that all the lengths you see anywhere are only starting points as they will vary heli to heli.

Yea thats very true!! Very odd that with the exact same heli that some could be so diff.
I didn't look at the manual to see how close or far mine are!!! I think those are giving me about +/- 12.5' But I've reduced my swash mix so I don't have that now!!
Question?? Does anyone check their cyclic pitch numbers?? I've only just read how you do that!!

I read somewhere a long time ago the E-Smart was suppose to use -8 to +8 which is close to what I have mine at. I had found a sweet spot for the throttle and pitch once but can't remember what it was, but when I found it the ES600 found alot more power, I think I'm running too much pitch too soon. A project for another day.

I'm gonna check to see if I can find my other E-Smart manual, there are 2 different ones for it, not sure why but I wonder if the lengths are the same in the manuals. BUt I don't think the different numbers mean much, just that one sawshplate is a mm or 2 higher then the other.

But cyclic pitch what???? Thats a new one to me, tell me more.

fatdaddy;
I set the links as per your #s. I don't get any -pitch but a ton of +pitch.
I'm assuming the measurement's are from the center of the links or they overall length? Also are the links from the flybar cage 43mm and the 2 cyclic servo links 80mm
along with the pitch servo about 61mm? I'm starting to lose my mind with this thing.
I have the swash mix at 60% across the board, servos centered at 0 pitch.
Thanks in advance and also for your reply.
Frank

Nutts, Cyclic pitch is, well how much pitch you get when you give full left or right stick..
That sure explanes it huh??!! I'll try to fing the article and go into it further!! You also use the pitch gauge to check/set that too!! It seems to me that what I've seen its about 7-8 for 3D set-up's..I'll get back with that!!
And Frank, First what TX. are you using? I'll give you my swash numbers later(cause I got to go downstairs to get it and I don't do steps well this early)!! Measurements are from center of the holes..
Servos centered at 50% stick in IDLE UP for 0' pitch!!?? AAAHHH Its too early for much more right now!!!! I'll get back with the swash mix numbers....And tyhe cyclic bit for Nuttsey..!!

I'm using a dx7 with an ar7000. I also measured the links from the center.
What a mystery!!
Frank

fazool wrote:

fatdaddy;
I set the links as per your #s. I don't get any -pitch but a ton of +pitch.
I'm assuming the measurement's are from the center of the links or they overall length? Also are the links from the flybar cage 43mm and the 2 cyclic servo links 80mm
along with the pitch servo about 61mm? I'm starting to lose my mind with this thing.
I have the swash mix at 60% across the board, servos centered at 0 pitch.
Thanks in advance and also for your reply.
Frank

Any time you're getting more pitch in 1 driection then the other, that usually means the swashplate is too high or too low.

OK I use a DX7 also.. My swash settings are 55/55/85 And I've lowered the first two from 65 to tame it down a bit.. The third, PIT. is what gives you your pitch +/-.
When you say a "ton" of +pitch just how much is a "ton"?
Try going to 80-85 on the PIT. mix and see what you got then. Just make sure that the washout assy. does not hit the Phazing ring at full stick.
Just to make sure, You did set everything, including 90' servo arms at mid stick in IDLE UP...right..

Yea Nutts, I also believe its too low. So going to 85 in swash mix for PIT. I think is gonna fix him up..!!

I think he means the he's getting something like -7 and then +10 or vice versus, if thats whats happening the swashplate would need to be rasied or lowered using the linkages from the servo bell cranks. You should get the same amount of pitch both - and + regardless what the swash mix is on.

fazool wrote:

fatdaddy;
I set the links as per your #s. I don't get any -pitch but a ton of +pitch.
I'm assuming the measurement's are from the center of the links or they overall length? Also are the links from the flybar cage 43mm and the 2 cyclic servo links 80mm
along with the pitch servo about 61mm? I'm starting to lose my mind with this thing.
I have the swash mix at 60% across the board, servos centered at 0 pitch.
Thanks in advance and also for your reply.
Frank

just had another thought, did you program the pitch curve yet? If not thats prob why you're not getting any -pitch

Hey Guys;
Something really wrong here..with the stick all the way down I srill have +2
in normal or idle 1. Can't make it any lower either way. At mid stick it's +12 in either mode. It sure looks like the cyclic links are far too long but I just dont understand why mine is so different than everyone else's. When I go from normal to idle 1 nothing changes. Maybe the radio???

did you program the pitch curves in your Tx yet?

Nuttcaze wrote:

did you program the pitch curves in your Tx yet?

Also, you're not using the VERY long links for the swashplate are you? The very long ones go from the swashplate to the mixing arms on the blade grips

The links to the mixing arms are 88.5, the links from the cyclic bellcranks are 80mm.
I can't lower the pitch on the radio its set at 0 and wont go lower in norm or idle. I just know whats going on with this. When I switch fron norm to idle nothing happens as far as the servos are concerned. When I set the pitch curve to 50% I have 12 degrees of pos pitch. It deffinately looks like the cyclic links are too long, plenty of room for the swash to come down but why just on mine?
Frank

ok, starting from the beginning,

you started with centering the servo horns with the Tx in Idle Up?

Then You adjusted the linkages so that the bell cranks were even with the servo arms?

Then you adjusted the links from the bell cranks to the Swashplate to make it level?

now at this point, when you connect the washout assembly to the swashplate, the washout arms should be level, if they're not the swashplate is too high or too low. Can you adjust the 3 links from the bell cranks to the swash to make sure the washout arms are level?

If his TX isnt set up properly in idle up, then setting the servos is pointless. We need to
make sure his TX is setup properly first thing. Sounds like he is confused on the idle up
setting.

Stunt pitch curve is 0,25,50,100.

HERE you GO...........

Checking and adjusting CYCLIC pitch:

Turn the head so that the flybar is perpendicular to the sides of the heli and you have one blade out front, one over the boom. Hold the flybar level, put your pitch gauge on the front blade. Set your throttle/collective stick to the zero degree position and verify that you have zero degrees pitch.

THEN move the aileron stick side to side. The flybar paddles will stay still and the blades will tilt with the stick movement. Move the stick full deflection left or right, and use the pitch gauge to measure the amount of pitch that the blade gets with full aileron movement. Adjust the AILERON number in the SWASH MIX menu so that you get no more than 6 or 7 degrees of aileron cyclic.

Turn the head 90 degrees, now the blades are perpendicular to the sides of the heli and the flybar is in line with the heli's centerline. Hold the flybar level.

Go back to the zero degree stick setting, verify that the blades are still at zero degrees. Then move the ELEVATOR stick full up and down. The flybar paddles will stay put, the rotor blades will tilt with the stick. Measure the amount of pitch you have on the MR blade as you hold full up or down elevator. Adjust the ELEVATOR number in the SWASH MIX menu until you have no more than 6 or 7 degrees of elevator cyclic pitch.

Some heavy 3D'ers gring the shaft collar setscrew head down and raise the cyclic to 9° and 10° for fast roll and flip

Word has it that you're only ever going to be able to use a total of about 17 degrees (collective + cyclic) before you start stalling the blades.

So if you've got +10 degrees of collective, then an additional 7 of cyclic, you'll achieve that 17 degree number with full collective, full cyclic.

If you have -10 degrees of collective, you'll still get that 17 degree total.

Yo Guys!!! This sounds to me like the servo arm are not done right!!!! The arms MUST be centered at MID(50%) throttle stick in IDLE UP where ithe pitch curve is 0-25-50-75-100!!! This looks like the thing to me!!!!